earbuds blasting pink floyd, and forget cheese. that's very passe. i think we may have stumbled upon a way to build a better mouse trap on the ridiculist. that's it for us. this is a major deal and a fight may be coming. and president obama calls secretary hillary clinton one of the finest secretary of states in history, but not everybody thinks that. and a hospital says that life begins at birth and not conception. let's go "out front." tonight, pigs are flying and it is an absolutely gorgeous sight. i thought they had an ice storm,

but it was really pigs. what has caused this tome -- caused them to take to the skies? immigration. there was a new immigration reform today proposed and you have marco rubio on the same page as chuck schumer. yes, pigs are in the air, and senator schumer has high hopes for this proposal. >> we believe this will be the year congress finally gets it done. the politics on this issue have been turned upside down. for the first time ever, there's more political risk in opposing immigration reform than in supporting it. >> but like everything else in washington, not everyone is on board.

take republican senator mike lee. he quickly issued this statement in opposition to the gang's plan. here's what he said. reforms to our complex and dysfunctional immigration system should not in any way favor those who came here illegally over the millions of applicants who seek to come here lawfully. the problem is without reform, there are 11 million people who are undocumented who are living in this country right now, and you can't just deport them all, and that is why everybody has always hit the big wall until the pigs started flying today. miguel marquez spoke to some young people today, and here are their stories. this issue is very personal. >> three young latinos, they look, sound, and say they feel like americans. they're not. >> i identify myself with the american culture, but at the same time, the american society is like, no, you're not a part of us. >> rolando was brought here as a 7-year-old from mexico wants to be a journalist. he was arrested in 2011. protesting legislation here that would limit access to a college education. >> unafraid, documented. he wants a clear path to citizenship. >> hopefully the obama administration does something

different this time. he promised something in the first days of his administration. he failed. >> it sounds like you don't trust any politician. >> i honestly don't. >> this woman, her father a mechanic, her mother, a hairstylist, wants to be a lawyer. brought here as a 10-year-old, she's now qualified for the deferred action program. it allows students brought here as kids to apply for temporary legal status. 1.8 million like her could be eligible. you're taken care of? >> yes, i'm taken care of. >> is your family? >> my parents are not. my parents are not taken care of, and that is one of the things that scares me the most. >> jesus wants to be a doctor, brought here as an 11-year-old. he's now applying for deferred action but feels trapped between two worlds. >> it's amazing to see that, you know, they're willing to help us now because all my life, i have been here. not knowing what's going to be in my future, not knowing where i'm going to go. >> three kids wanting a piece of

the american dream, all three watching, hoping that dream becomes reality. miguel marquez, cnn, savannah, georgia. >> tom tancredo is a former congressman from colorado, maria cardona is a contributor for us. i appreciate your taking the time to join us. representative tancredo, john mccain is part of this bipartisan group. like i said, a lot of people together you wouldn't expect to be standing together. but here's what he said about why republicans have to do this deal and do this deal now. >> elections. elections. the republican party is losing the support of our hispanic citizens. and we realize that there are many issues in which we think we are in agreement with our hispanic citizens, but this is a preeminent issue for those citizens. >> obviously, when you look at the election last time, president obama got 71% of the latino vote. mitt romney, 27%. is john mccain right?

>> no, he really isn't. he's no more right this time than he was back in, what, '87, when he and another gang tried to put together a very similar bill. he and a member of that time of it was called the mccain-kennedy bill. very similar in every respect to what i have seen so far. i must admit i haven't seen the whole thing. from what i heard about it, very similar. at any rate, it's the same rhetoric, and it's just as wrong today as it was then. the reason, i mean, this is amazing, honestly. somehow, republicans, many republicans, mccain being one of them, have been led to believe that all we have to do as republicans is soften the stance on immigration, and we will begin to erode the democrat base that exists in the hispanic community. certainly, there is nothing to prove that. honestly, nothing, not one shred of evidence. not one poll ever taken shows hispanics saying, yeah, that's it.

hispanics vote for democrats for exactly the same reason that other people vote for democrats. they want bigger government. nothing to do with immigration. >> i want to get maria's response. in a word, what is your problem with it as you perceive it? do you think the 11 million people here, there should be no path to citizenship? >> why would you give -- the most important, the most valuable thing we hand out to people who come here legally, that is citizenship, why would you do this to them? why would you be so unfair as to say, we're going to take that one thing, the best thing we give you for doing it the right way, and give it to people who did not do it the right way. it is not fair. >> maria, let me ask you a question about what the president is actually going to do about this and let me get this -- i want to play a sound bite for you. this is what democratic representative luis gutierrez told cnn today about what the president is going to do on immigration. >> the important thing on friday's meeting is that the president said he's going to

make this his top priority, his number one priority. >> july 8, 2008, the president of the united states speaking to the league of united latin american citizens. july 8, 2008, here he is on immigration. >> i will make it a top priority in my first year as president. >> trust him this time? >> i do, erin. and for a couple reasons. first of all, i think the president knows who he owes in large part his re-election. that is to the 71% of latinos who got him re-elected. the second thing is let's thing back to july of 2008. that was way before the economy went into freefall, so he had a couple other priorities he had to deal with when he first came into office. and the third thing, erin, is that this president wants this as his legacy. and he has said that he wants it to be a priority, even during the re-election, he talked about this, so he knows that now he has a debt to pay. the republicans need to do this

as a necessity, and with all due respect to the congressman, this is absolutely an issue of electoral survival for the republican party. the congressman is right that this isn't the only thing that republicans need to soften up their tone on, but if this isn't something they get done for the latino community, they're not going to listen to them on anything else. >> congressman, here is my problem intellectually from where you're coming from. and this is a complicated issue, but i don't understand. these people are already here. you're not going to be able to pick them up and move them out. that's not practical. so if you start from that point of view, how are you ever going to get a deal? >> if i could give you a very simple and i think incredibly efficient way of dealing with this issue, one that does not require rounding people up or anything else of that nature. but nonetheless, would certainly solve the biggest part of the problem. if i could give that to you, would you at least agree with me there is an alternative? and here is what i'm suggesting and have been suggesting for years.

it is something called e-verify. if you mandate e-verify for every employer in this country, you're doing a couple things. your doing a big, big favor for people who are here legally and can't get work. you're doing a big favor for immigrants who are here legally and can't get work, and you are of course dealing with this issue in the most humane way possible. if you come the right way, you get the job. if your social security number is not right, you can't. you know, you have to go home. you'll have to take care of this yourself. they will self-deport, but because that is the easiest and certainly the most efficient way of dealing with it, we will never use it, but it's the best way, and it doesn't require rounding people up. >> i have to leave it there. thanks very much to both of you. interesting points of view, and interesting when you take that and put it next to the kids that miguel marquez spoke to, it is a tough issue and certainly not black and white. still to come, new

developments in a story we covered last week. a catholic hospital believes life begins at birth, not conception. plus, iran launches its space program's first manned rocket. is planet of the apes on its way? and why at least one former administration official disagrees with the president when he says this. >> i think hillary will go down as one of the finest secretary of states we've had. when you have diabetes... your doctor will say get smart about your weight. that's why there's glucerna hunger smart shakes. they have carb steady, with carbs that digest slowly to help minimize blood sugar spikes. [ male announcer ] glucerna hunger smart. a smart way to help manage hunger and diabetes.

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our second story "outfront," transformational or overrated? which word better describes the legacy of hillary rodham clinton as secretary of state? president obama thinks the first option is what people think. >> i think hillary will go down as one of the finest secretary of states we've had. >> not everyone agrees. a former official tells the los angeles times, it's tough to see what has happened in world politics over the last four years that wouldn't have

happened without her, so it's hard to see how she gets into the category of truly great, transformational secretaries. and i want to note in the article of the los angeles times, all of them were critical spoke as unnamed former officials, but people who were complimentary were willing to go by name. peter brooks, assistant secretary of defense in the bush administration, anne marie slaughter worked for secretary clinton. great to have both of you. peter, what do you think? we saw this article today in the "los angeles times." i have not seen many articles questioning at all the tenure of secretary clinton. this was the first. >> i'm not a diplomatic historian, but i think some of the fawning has been over the top. we saw this at her hearing over benghazi. we saw this, you know, i think, when she also introduced john kerry. i think you have to -- it's too early to say in terms of a legacy, but i think if you look at the record, there are a lot of problems that happened during her tenure.

i would say things like syria, the lack of progress on iran, north korea, the russian relationship. you can go on and on and on. it's fair to say this is a very tough job, and each secretary of state gets a different set of circumstances they have to deal with, so it's very difficult to compare them. >> anne marie, what is your point of view? maybe this comes from her approval rating is something anybody on the planet, a celebrity would be happy to have, right? but it has become sort of the untouchable thing to say, you know what? maybe she wasn't the best ever. maybe she wasn't perfect? >> i don't know if she was the best ever. i mean that is an unbelievable range of competition, but she was fabulous. she restored our standing in the world, and she has put diplomacy back out front. right? we are once again leading diplomatically, and she has put together coalitions against north korea, against iran. i think that she has been fabulous. look, her boss thinks so. i'm not sure what more you need

from that. >> let me throw out a few of the things that have happens. the israeli/arab conflict, she hasn't resolved that but no one else has. north korea, obviously threatening the united states as recently as last week and testing more missiles, then you have benghazi, the attack on the hostages in algeria, and now the mali situation. some of these, especially in north africa, you could say, is that somebody else's fault or is that a failure? >> with mali, we're talking about the next phase on the war on terror. this is the sahara desert. i don't know what she could have done to stop those, but in the other cases, we're in a better position with iran than we have ever been. we have a stronger international coalition. we're in a better place to make a deal. with north korea, no one has been able to stop north korea, but we're back in asia. we're back in asia in large part because she has been on a plane

constantly back in the region making relationships. >> peter, let me ask you a question and i want to get your response as well, but the middle east is very complicated, but the proxy americans look at when it comes to the middle east is israel, when it comes the dealing with iran, with israel, with the broader region. hillary clinton holds the record for the most countries visited at 112. israel, the least visits from any secretary of state since rogers. henry kissinger, 36 times for israel. is this significant? >> well, i mean, she was very energetic. i don't know if she gets frequent flyer miles for all of the miles she logged. that is her job as chief diplomat. >> sadly probably the one perk she does not get. >> right, but the fact is our relationship with israel hasn't been the best. so i don't know if you can directly equate that. anne marie served in the administration. but under the obama administration, relations with israel have been very tough.

they may have reached a bottom and mare they're on an uprise, but once again, i think this comes down to president obama's policy. remember, she's the secretary of state. she implements the president's agenda, and i think a lot of the problems out there, i think, were president obama's vision. i think i may be wrong here, but i think secretary clinton would have done things a little different on some of these situations such as iran. in fact, i think she's more to the right on iran than president obama is. >> interesting point of view. this has been very much how he sees things, anne marie. a question, though, for you, about her popularity. that to me is what seems to be the most amazing thing. how has she achieved that to be so popular? i ask you that because you know her and you worked for her. early on in her campaign, people saw her at shrill and over the top, and now she's the beloved lady. >> i think that people see what she said in the campaign is that she gets up every single morning and figures out how she can work

her absolute hardest to advance the american people and frankly people all over to the world. people have seen it day in, day out. they have seen her exhausted. seen her injured and get up and get back in the saddle and work incredibly hard. and she has done a superb job. >> thanks very much to both of you. we appreciate it, and our viewers, please let us know what you think of hillary clinton and will she be running for president in 2016? that's on cnn.com. david rothkopp argues why the nomination should be be hers. "outfront" next, seven years after falling into a coma, scientists in israel make a startling discovery about ariel sharon. >> since there has not been a director of the bureau of

alcoholic, firearms and tobacco they should confirm todd jones. >> reporter: gun control advocates are quick to point the finger. >> the nra through members of congress have sought to defund or in some instances emasculate the atfe by restricting the operations in such ways as to prevent them from doing their job. >> reporter: the washington post editorial board says that the gun rights lobby has spent considerable time and energy in one goal, crippling the atf. the nra has been critical of the agency which sees the mission as preventing violent crimes by finding firearms used in violent crimes. but does it add up? no. before that the senate was

required to confirm, and so when president george bush nominated michael sullivan, it looked like an easy vote, but it could not get an easy vote in a republican senate? >> did they ever believe it would happen? and candidly, no. >> reporter: senator larry craig and two other republicans all staunch members of the nra held up sullivan's nomination, but it was not the nra's hands at work, but about one local idaho's gun seller's dispute with the atf and sullivan, himself, says that the nra did not derail him. >> i never got any sense at all, you know, that the industry was opposed to my nomination, nor even the nra. >> reporter: when president obama took office, the senate

sat on his first nominee andrew traver, and even conservatives like darrell issa called for action. >> did andrew traver is the november 2010 designate should in fact be given and up or down vote, and should be given the opportunity to be confirmed. >> reporter: but the republicans and nra could spell trouble for todd jones, because already todd grassley is raising concerns over his fast and furious scandal. but they do believe that the atf deserves a permanent leader. >> should there be a bureau? >> yes. >> should there be a director? >> yes. >> you believe that there should be a director of the atf? >> yes, but the problem is getting the right person there permanently. in the meantime, todd jones serves a as the current atf director and the attorney general for minnesota. his office did not respond to cnn for comment.

erin? >> well, it is amazing, joe, that we go this long with these new laws that we have to make sure that what happens is working. and a catholic church says that life begins at birth, and now a court is forced to decide. and also a report says that the president does skeet shooting all of the time. really? and iran launches the first manned spaceship, and well, aren't they people, too? if there was a pill to help protect your eye health as you age... would you take it? well, there is. [ male announcer ] it's called ocuvite. a vitamin totally dedicated to your eyes, from the eye care experts at bausch + lomb.

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welcome back to the second half of "outfront." we start with stories we care about where we focus on reporting from the front lines and we begin in mali. french president francois hollande says that french forces are winning the battle in mali, and he says though that northern forces are controlling the area, and he refused to speculate on how long france would continue to intervene. today, a spokesman said they don't want a conflict with french forces, but they will fight the malian army as soon as al qaeda linked extremists are pushed out of the nation. that's what they tell us.

and meanwhile, in timbuktu, revels have razed the library a designated world heritage site that holds many books precolonial africa. there were multiple reports of that today. that is a terrible thing. >> yahoo reported quarterly results. we have been telling you about the company's ceo marissa mayer. one of the things she was hired to do was increase revenue. she's only had really five, i would say four months at the end of the year, but you know what? she actually delivered. yahoo showed annual revenue growth for the first time in four years. they were up 2%. may not sound like a lot, but it is still up. on the company's conference call, she describes yahoo's turn around as a multiyear march toward growth. marathon and not a sprint, huh? >> and now, check this out, the best tricks competition at the winter x games. during the snow mobile finals,

australian jackson strong attempted that move unsuccessfully, and the snowmobile kept going, and crashed into the fence and right into the crowd. according to espn, one fan was injured, just injured. he was attended to and later released. oh, he later tweeted this photo. he flew through the air and he looked like he died, and he's out tweeting, so he's okay. he said, wishing my sled still looks like this. and not all bent and so glad my sled did not hurt anybody when it flew into the crowd. you are only young once, thank god. >> it has been 543 days since the u.s. lost its top credit rating. what are we doing to get it back? the housing number fell, and the reason it fell is because of limited supply. that's because there are shortages in some places. buyers are waiting. there has been a comeback in the housing market. now, our fourth story, defining when life begins. it's a controversial issue that cameo a head in colorado today at the legislature.

it was fueled in part by a story we brought you on friday. jeremy's wife laurie died of cardiac arrest in 2006. while 28 weeks pregnant with twins. the twins also died. jeremy filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the hospital where she died, but they said under colorado law, an unborn fetus is not considered a person. cnn kim's law -- cnn's kyung lah is following this story for us. this is becoming an issue of national focus in colorado, and they were going to go ahead with legislation possibly today that would have redefined when life begins. what happened with that legislation? >> it's a bill that died in committee, and the supporter of it said it's very unfortunate. that bill would have expanded the definition of fetal homicide in the state of colorado. and it was something that supporters really backed. they were spending the day on the steps of the colorado legislature, and they were citing jeremy, the man you just

mentioned, because his case is in the civil arena, but the questions are essentially the same. when does life begin? how does the state define it? how does the catholic church define it? and is the church being consistent? >> there's only one date on the grave site. >> yeah. that was the day they passed. >> a day that jeremy's twin boys never saw outside their mother's womb. they were at 28 weeks, viable, but died in the emergency room at st. thomas moore hospital in canyon city, colorado. 31-year-old laurie seven months pregnant, died after a massive heart attack from a pulmonary embolism. >> my heart breaks. >> he fired a wrongful death lawsuit against the hospital for his wife and twin boys. the catholic health initiative mounted a stunning defense that contradicts the catholic

church's teachings that life begins at conception. the hospital argued under colorado law, the person at one point must have been born alive. >> i would find that hypocritical anywhere. there wasn't one person who went into that e.r. there were three. >> the archdiocese of denver said they would not comment on ongoing disputes but appeared to back pedal from the hospital's stance saying we will undertake a full review of this litigation and as the policies of catholic health initiatives to insure fidelity and faithful and witnesses to the teaching of the catholic church. >> in the meantime, stodghill is now bankrupt after being socked with the legal fees of the hospital. he won't give up. he wants the state's highest court to weigh in on his case. he's appealing to the colorado supreme court, asking them if his sons were people under state law. >> the pain eases with time, but it never goes away.

you'll always love them. >> heather was at the capital in denver today where she fought for a law to insure that all unborn victims of homicide were considered people. for heather, this story is deeply personal. she was just days away from giving birth to a boy last july when she was hit by a drunk driver. she lost the baby, and state law prevented authorities from charging the drunk driver with her unborn baby's death. >> it was really hard because someone took him from me. and it's really hard. the law says that brady wasn't a person. brady was 8 pounds 2 ounces. brady was a person. his life was worth defending. >> the pro life organization personhood colorado helped heather launch a campaign to tell her story. heather is "outfront" tonight, joined by her mother who was also in the car for that horrific accident.

heather, i just have to say, talking about your story, it's hard to comprehend, even think about comprehending what you went through. how has it been every day since then? i mean, those are the last few days where you were probably full of excitement, right? about meeting him. >> yeah. i was super excited. just leaving the doctor's office, being able to hear his heart beat and see the ultra sound pictures and everything of him. i was super excited, and then, you know, within a couple hours after the doctor's appointment, he was there, and then he was gone when i woke up in the icu, and that was horrible. it was an absolute horrible experience, and so now my mom and i are just trying to push forward and to just use our story and use brady as a way to get some recognition that this goes on a lot, and that we need to do something about it. >> and terry, you lost your grandson in this accident, and

you were in the car, i know, with your daughter that day. what has been the hardest part for you or what was the hardest part for you going through this, seeing your daughter lose her son? >> i truly believe is that one of the worst things is that when we told charges were brought against the driver, none of them were counted against brady. it was like brady didn't matter, didn't count. that has been hard to deal with. >> heather, that is why i know you are working with personhood colorado and trying to change the law in colorado so that life will be defined to begin at conception in terms of defining a person so that this could not happen a again. today, though, obviously, the bill that was going to do just that was shot down. it didn't get through committee. are you going to keep fighting? >> oh, yes. we are not -- my mom and i, both have teamed up with personhood, and we're not going to stop this fight until we get this job done.

>> personhood colorado describes itself as a pro life organization. its goal is to ban abortions. is that something that you both want? >> yes. we both are going to fight for that as well. and we're just going to start taking little steps at a time to get completely through all of the steps we need to take to get this all done with, to get the abortion done, taken care of, and get it the way it's supposed to be. >> heather and terry, thank you both very much for sharing your story with us. >> thank you so much. >> thank you. >> i want to bring in cnn's legal contributor paul callan, who is an attorney who defends doctors in malpractice cases. this is obviously a very tough issue. the personal stories are incredibly tragic, but obviously, if you define personhood beginning at conception, that would have questions in the abortion debate? >> i believe it is, but those who define themselves as pro

choice, we have been fearful that if you we say a fetus is a person for the purpose of the law, criminal law or civil law, how can you allow this person to be aborted without a hearing? so there's a problem there in terms of the logic of it that disturbs people. >> and one thing, i mean, without getting into the whole nitty-gritty of the abortion debate. to me, if the person -- that baby when he died was 8 pounds 2 ounces, he was going to be born in a couple days. how can you not define that as a person? he was a viable life. >> i think most state legislatures would agree with you. that's why in most states, viability of the fetus is the area where they start to view a fetus as human under criminal law, and this sort of action in another state would be involuntary manslaughter and a very, very different kind of set of charges. >> they're going to push ahead with this. they're going to try to get this amendment into another bill. they're going to keep pushing. what is the likelihood that this pushes in colorado and becomes a

national example that others follow? >> this is a poster child for the case. but colorado is such a strange state that legalized marijuana, but on the other hand, on this side of the ledger, they won't go along with any sort of severe penalties for drunken driving or if somebody even dies in a drunken driving accident. radically different from the rest of the country. i find it hard to predict what they'll do. >> paul, thank you very much. this will have implications around this nation. ahead, the president. so he said he goes skeet shooting all the time. does that add up? and iran's first astronaut launched into space. are they serious or just, you know, monkeying around? with the spark cash card from capital one,

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we're back with tonight's outer circle where we reach out to our sources around the world, and tonight we go to iran where the government said it launched a monkey into orbit and brought it back to earth. reza sayah is in iran, and i asked him, why would iran send a monkey into orbit? >> late night comedy shows are probably going to have a field day with this, but for iran, launching a monkey into space is serious business. eventually, they want to get a human being up there. they're starting with a monkey.

before you make fun, remember, the u.s. did this in the 1950s as part of their space program. iran first tried this in 2011. it didn't work. state media reporting it worked this time around. this monkey was strapped in like a mummy making monkey business very, very difficult. it is not clear when this happened. whenever iran tests any rocket, washington always sounds the alarm saying it could be a secret test for their nuclear program, and it is very likely that you will hear some of the concerns again, erin. >> all right. reza, thank you very much. now our fifth story "outfront," obama the skeet shooter. i'm not making this up. in an interview with the new york republic, the president revealed he can relate to people who enjoy firing guns. when asked if he has ever fired one, he replied, quote, yes, in fact at camp david, we do skeet shooting all the time. the reporter followed up, the whole family? to which the president replied, oftentimes guests of mine go up there, and i have a profound

respect for hunting and the generations of traditions and i think those who dismiss that are making a big mistake. don't expect to see pictures of the president shooting skeet anytime soon. >> how often does the president go skeet shooting and there are photographs of him doing so? >> i would refer you simply to his comments. i don't know how often he does go to camp david with some regularity, but i'm not sure how often he's done that. >> is there a photograph of him doing that? >> maybe, but i haven't seen it. >> why haven't we heard about it before? >> because when he goes to camp david, he goes to spend time with his family and friends and relax, not to produce photographs. >> we have heard about a lot of recreational activities at camp david. "outfront" tonight, we are joined by roland martin and larry and representative marcia blackburn. good to see all of you. all right, roland, there is some skepticism among conservatives and nonconservatives about the

president's frequency of skeet shooting. mark miller told us he's heard of bowling, golfer, archery, but not skeet shooting. if you're going to say you do it all the time, don't you have to prove it? >> no, we went through four years of this man trying to prove he's an american. trying to prove he's a christian. i don't need a photo of his birth certificate, so seriously, and i don't care. he doesn't need to show a photo saying, oh, there's a president holding a gun, because i always thought it was stupid when a politician would have a photo of them wading through the weeds to show everybody, hey, he's a hunter. it's not that big of a deal and it's not going to change anybody's mind as relates to gun control in this country. >> that is true. if that's why he said it, i will think everyone will agree with you. representative blackburn, do you think this is not a relevant

point of conversation? >> i think it is a relevant point of conversation. if he is a skeet shooter, why have we not heard of this, why have we not seen photos, why hasn't he referenced this at any point in time? as we have had this gun debate that is ongoing, it would have been a point of reference. but i will tell you what i do think that he should invite me to camp david, and i will go skeet shooting him, and i bet you i will beat him. >> i have been trying to go golfing with him. >> i said i was willing to go, and i'll challenge him to some skeet shooting. it's a great hobby, and i would hope that the president does enjoy it. >> david -- >> i challenged him. we'll see. >> let me ask you, because there's something about this, as to why the president would say this right now. whether it's true or not true, you know, president clinton tried to get democrats in line recently on this issue.

he said to donors in a private meeting, and i will quote the president on this, do not patronize your supporters of your opponents by looking down your nose at them. that brought to mind the now infamous comment by then candidate obama when he talked about people clinging to guns and religion. >> first, as someone who has missed more clay pigeons than -- >> i never hit one and i only went once. >> i can well imagine why the president wouldn't want photographers there. i wouldn't want them either. i think the president is in this case shooting at the wrong target. the thing that drives the gun debate in this country, really, it's not about hunting. hunting is a dwindling activity and at this point 5% of americans take out hunting licenses, but what drives the gun debate is fear of crime. what americans need to know if they are going to think intelligently about the use of weapons is how much crime has declined in the country over the last 20 years. people don't appreciate the

magnitude of this drop, and if you look at the statistics today, americans are safer from crime since records began and probably since the history of the republic. if people knew that, it would have an impact and they don't need firearms to protect themselves, because they are safer than ever before, and that is the point to drive home, and meanwhile, one last thing, they are risking accident, and risk of suicide among their loved ones, and that is what the gun debate is about. >> they take away we're safer than we have ever been before, we don't need firearms, and somebody like you might say we don't need to pass more gun control legislation. >> we don't need to pass more legislation, and the assault weapons ban didn't work. that's why it wasn't extended in 2004. and what individuals want is their freedom. they want the second amendment respected. and they want to make certain that we understand that.

>> assault weapons ban, putting that aside for a moment, and the number, 2% to 8% happens on the assault weapons ban. it's not the number one culprit. handguns are. but would you support universal background checks? would you support any change at all? >> well, most -- the only time a background check does not happen is when an individual transfers to another individual. >> gun shows. family. >> most people at the gun shows, though, are licensed dealers and they are going through a background check. so the background checks, those work, and they root out people. what i want to see is when you find someone, a felon, who has tried to buy a gun, i want to see that person prosecuted. and i want to see the laws that we have on the books followed. >> roland, when you hear representative blackburn, do you think we're not going to get anywhere with an assault weapons ban or any sort of other legislation? >> what i hear is someone who

refuses to budge an inch. again, how hard is it to say, sure, why can't we have universal background checks? even if you're selling the weapon to a family member or someone else, why can't you still do that? and so that should be a straightforward easy answer, but if you're unwilling to budge, and look, i get tennessee, georgia, and i'm from texas, but my goodness, even universal background check, how hard is that? >> in a word. >> background checks are important, and we also need to make certain that we are checking mental health. >> i agree. >> but you would support a universal background check? >> sure. >> thank you very much. appreciate all three of you taking the time. next, former israeli prime minister ariel sharon has been in a vegetative state, but in the past few days, scientists have made a totally shocking discovery. ♪

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androgel 1.62%. in israel, doctors say they have detected significant brain activity during tests on ariel sharon.

in 2006, the former prime minister of israel suffered a massive stroke. he has remained at a university medical center in what everybody has described as a vegetative state since. last week, when scientists showed sharon pictures of his family and had him listen to his son's voice and also employed tactile stimulation, and did all of those things and tested him at the same time, and it showed that the brain was processing the stimuli appropriately. still then, the doctors agreed that despite the comforts that the family may be offered, he will almost certainly remain in a vegetative state forever. it's not like this is part of a recovery, which brings me to tonight's number. 30%. that's the percent of american whose have a living will. it's much lower than it should be because more than 70% of americans say they have made the decision of about end of life treatment. but only 30% of them have put it down on paper. not doing it can create confusion and conflict for your

loved ones if you're ever in that state, like ariel sharon. we're not trying to say one decision is better than the other. i have people in my family who feel very passionately on the opposite side of this one. it's up to you, some people feel keeping a person alive is the thing to do. others feel it would be a loss of dignity and humanity. but it's important to make a decision and put it in a living will. thanks. . so you see everything the way it's meant to be seen. maybe even a little better. visit your eyecare professional today to ask about our newest lenses, transitions vantage and transitions xtractive lenses. experience life well lit. ask which transitions adaptive lens is best for you. bikes and balloons, wholesome noodles on spoons. a kite, a breeze,

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